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August 19th, 2005


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ghostbard
12:40 am - Tired
Do you know how tired I am about hearing about how Elfwood is "too strict" just because we don't let people upload whatever the heck they want? I mean, come on, people. You're getting a free service. This free service has a few rules that you need to follow. So, quit whining and follow them.

I get e-mails from friends of mine that are members who are telling me they're leaving because they don't like the rules. I see a lot of posts in the various elfwood journals from people who don't like following the rules. The rules are "too strict", or the rules "are stupid", or the rules "don't allow freedom of expression".

It's "too much trouble" to write a description that tells us why an image is in genre. It's "not fair" to make a writer put a translation in because of foreign language. It's "just too dumb" to make people honor copyright laws by telling us where the lyrics/poetry/book excerpts/etc. are from. Having people make the effort to submit clean, neat images is just "too much work".

If we can't tell why the image is in genre, we're going to reject it. Medieval stuff IS NOT FANTASY. There are some excellent medieval stories out there that don't contain a jot of fantasy. They're fiction...and Thomas has said fiction =/= fantasy. If we don't know what's being said, it gets rejected because Thomas has asked that everything written on the site be in English, or have a translation provided. Thomas asks us to follow the copyright laws because he doesn't want his site shut down due to lawsuits. So when people are asked to provide a note as to where they got a written source, this is to keep us from getting shut down. If you want to sell your art, get commissions from people with real money, submit your art to a real gallery, etc. you need your artwork to be crisp, clean, and neatly presented. So when you are asked to edit out the lines on an image, cut off the piece of your scanner bed, etc. this is so you can present your art in the best way possible.

Every rule on Elfwood has a very sensible reason behind it. The rules aren't there to make everyone's lives miserable. They're to help you present your art and stories in the best possible light, and they're also to help keep this wonderful site open and available to the public.
Current Mood: aggravatedaggravated

(59 comments | Leave a comment)

Comments:


[User Picture]
From:muizenstaartje
Date:August 19th, 2005 07:33 am (UTC)
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Well, if they think Elfwood's rules are too strict and ruining their fun, they should leave. I don't say it in a "good riddance" way, but really if you can't enjoy your stay in any online gallery (not just Elfwood), instead of developing an ulcer you should leave and find something you like. You can create your own misery or happiness.

I find Elfwood’s rules strict, but not unreasonable and you should be strict to yourself if you want to sell your artwork. On the other hand if you want something carefree, Elfwood might not be the place for you.

And whining is not going to change Elfwood. :P
[User Picture]
From:ankewehner
Date:August 19th, 2005 07:47 am (UTC)
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As a reader, I really, really like the requirement to provide translations of foreign languages. I remember a handful of published novels I read that had a sentence here and there of other languages thrown in, and, well, I could not understand them. That sucks.

And if people can't be bothered to spend 10 seconds putting white paper into their schoolbag so that they don't have to draw on lined paper in class, or to spend 5 seconds cropping off the paper edges after scanning, how come they have enough time to fill out the submit art form? Gnah X(
From:allcuishpa
Date:August 19th, 2005 07:49 pm (UTC)
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Yeah I never understood why people wouldn't bring white paper to school with them if they KNEW they were going to sit there drawing in class every day. They were doing it when I was in school and I assume long before. But there I was taking notes on the one hand and drawing on the discreet pile of typing paper beside it. Or in college, taking notes in my sketchbooks.

They always give excuses like having it taken by the teacher or whatever, but oh noes they can't write in sketchbooks because there are NO LINES. Huh? Notebook paper is a 20th century invention. Surely all those people who wrote before that did not have some strangely discontinued genetic pattern that allowed them to write on unlined paper?

In summary, kids are dumb.

I like finding foreign languages thrown into movies and books though. It's exciting. Still glad Elfwood doesn't allow stuff without translation, though I think having to replace EVERY word when it is clear in context, or is the better-known title of a published work (like "La belle dame sans merci" for example), is kind of dumb. Hell, most of those words ARE encorporated into English or at least most English speakers would have a gist of it. Even so, that is the "known" title of the work so if someone mentioned it in their image description it would still need to be translated according to the rules. D:

The language rule is way too nit-picky in my opinion, though for keeping things legible I agree it is awesome when employed practically. But all languages are growing and changing constantly. English is spoken as the primary language in many places with many different linguistic and cultural influences. What is the bottom line? If someone grows up in America and uses the word "gracias" without thinking of it as a foreign language, do they have to translate it for the sake of the Australians? Or is it widespread enough that most people will "get it"? And how do you tell which words make the cut if you are not a linguist? I mean as a user, how do you know what "counts" as English until you get a fat rejection note in your inbox? Sushi is obviously Japanese but nobody has to write "He is eating sushi (a japanese food made with rice, seaweed, and fish or vegetable often served with wasabi). Yum! Elves like sushi!".
[User Picture]
From:valkyriur
Date:August 20th, 2005 04:54 am (UTC)
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It's not just school. Some people draw in the margins of their stories and then go "oh wow, this looks pretty nice." *shrugs*
[User Picture]
From:kokopellinelli
Date:August 19th, 2005 11:18 am (UTC)
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Nicely said.
[User Picture]
From:kharmii
Date:August 19th, 2005 12:21 pm (UTC)
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The rules are the least of the problems.....Elfwood used to be a good site, back when a lot of new stuff was going up. I've had a ticket in the queque for over a month now. I realize you mods have lives of your own, but there is a big line of other people who would be willing to take the time to moderate.

I've heard good things about deviantart.com. I'm going to start putting stuff up there. I'll bet their waiting times are way low. Many people pissandmoan about the cellphone art thing, but if a 14yr. old wants to put my art on their cellphone you think I'd care?

no

From:cuddness
Date:August 19th, 2005 03:05 pm (UTC)
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btw, there aren't any tickets in the queue that ARE over a month old. So either yours is a phantom ticket, or you've miscalculated.
[User Picture]
From:chenderson
Date:August 20th, 2005 12:18 am (UTC)
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DeviantArt has no waiting times. Unless the server is dragging, which has been happening a lot recently.
Personally, I like Elfwood better, but I haven't drawn much in genre in over a year, so I'm neglecting it.
[User Picture]
From:valkyriur
Date:August 20th, 2005 04:53 am (UTC)
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DA...you just post and it's there. If you like that, go for it. I just don't agree with their user agreement. If others don't mind the user agreement, that's their perogative.
[User Picture]
From:dendora
Date:August 19th, 2005 12:24 pm (UTC)
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Elfwood = Fantasy/sci-fi gallery... Um, what part don't people get?
I think Elfwood can be too liberal at times, especially towards furry artwork, being a furry artist myself I don't think just because its anthro means its fantasy, unless a good context can be given. It’s like saying everything anime is fantasy, it just isn’t true. But some people may argue otherwise and that’s their call, I can see it from their point of view too. That’s just the way I see that little genre.
I intensely dislike some, a limited few of the Elfwood rules, like literary fanart not being allowed into the fanart gallery. To me that seems hypocritical and awkward, and I've heard the argument as to why it is done and my views are unchanged. And because of this I refuse to open a fanart gallery or post fanart of any sort there because I hate the rule. No biggy for me. I have four other galleries.
I also (I bet you’re fed up of hearing about me!) do a lot of nudes and erotica (fantasy mainly) so I'll post that on Deviantart or if its sexual on Furaffinity or because Elfwood is special to me, I’ll alter it and do a tame version just for the gallery. After all, there's no point in kicking up a fuss on something you're not going to win.
And if people don't like the rules, well Elfwood isn't the be all and end all of internet galleries, there are much bigger and better galleries out there, go to them, don't make everyone miserable by fighting an unattainable fight.
From:bogfrog
Date:August 19th, 2005 03:18 pm (UTC)
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On a side note, I also have a peeve with this: I intensely dislike some, a limited few of the Elfwood rules, like literary fanart not being allowed into the fanart gallery.

Personally, I'd prefer there to be a distinction between work that's based on someone else's writing (be it Tolkien, McCaffrey, whoever) and work that's wholly original. Meh.

From:origamifrog
Date:August 20th, 2005 02:58 am (UTC)
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Hmm... you do tame versions of nudes/erotica for Elfwood? Why? Elfwood allows full frontal nudity... or is all the stuff you do way too erotic or something?

(Don't mind me, I'm just peeking into this discussion and being curious)
[User Picture]
From:hbrika
Date:August 19th, 2005 12:29 pm (UTC)
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The rules don't bother me at all the name ->Elfwood<- pretty much says it all. The whole lined paper thing makes me laugh. Most sites don't allow it (except under a sketches folder or something) and if you are posting your art for the world to see do you want it to be seen on foolscap anyway?

I have issues with the wait times but that isn't the crux of the conversation.
(Deleted comment)
[User Picture]
From:dinogrrl
Date:August 20th, 2005 03:11 am (UTC)
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Amen.
[User Picture]
From:valkyriur
Date:August 20th, 2005 04:48 am (UTC)
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LOL
From:ghostbard
Date:August 19th, 2005 05:14 pm (UTC)
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And we all know all the problems going on at DeviantArt.

Also, if people would just follow the rules, the ticket wait wouldn't be nearly as long. A lot of the problems stem from people breaking the rules so we have to go hunt originals, ask for comments as to whether they're ok for Elfwood, training new moderators (which takes a VERY long time), etc.
[User Picture]
From:xlagartixax
Date:August 19th, 2005 08:09 pm (UTC)
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Which problems are you referring to? My DA account has no genre restrictions or wait times, a print service and better exposure than Elfwood. I enjoy using both services and consider comparison between the two like apples to oranges, but I'm a little taken aback by the developing trend of hating on DeviantArt.
[User Picture]
From:xlagartixax
Date:August 19th, 2005 08:21 pm (UTC)
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Just to be devil's advocate here (I personally don't have a problem with EW, I just don't use it often anymore): If the rules are so easy to understand and the genre universal enough that EVERYONE with passable intelligence can adhere to them, why does it take so long to train a moderator?
[User Picture]
From:steppinrazor
Date:August 19th, 2005 05:19 pm (UTC)
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Maybe the problem is that for some reason Elfwood is catering more and more to people who just want to share scribbles and get "OMG SKWEE <3 <3 I LUV THIS" in their inbox as much as possible... and less and less to people who are actual "artist" enough to really care how their work is displayed?

I dunno, I find it a tad disturbing that there -has- to be a rule about no lined paper, and cropping, and clear scans; that people don't just do it on their own. And that so many complain about it says something about the quality of "art" they care to produce.
From:allcuishpa
Date:August 19th, 2005 07:22 pm (UTC)
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"And that so many complain about it says something about the quality of "art" they care to produce."

Which is probably why nobody cries when those "artists" pack up their shit and (very audibly) leave the site. :)
[User Picture]
From:kehrli
Date:August 20th, 2005 02:17 am (UTC)
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I think the rules are too strict (and have steadily been getting stricter) but I still enforce them.

GO FIGURE
OMGWTFNOODLES
From:allcuishpa
Date:August 20th, 2005 02:48 am (UTC)
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"Every rule on Elfwood has a very sensible reason behind it."

The simple abbreviations "LOL" or even "ROFLMFAO" fail to convey the sheer volume, intensity, and duration of laughter which burst forth upon reading that statement. If you see a new named system appear over the Atlantic, that will be the wind generated by my laughter at such an ironic and PATENTLY INSANE statement.

BUT HEY I AM JUST THE GARBAGEMAN. IF IT'S IN A CAN I TOSS IT OUT. PLEASE SORT YOUR RECYCLABLES IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE FINED. (P.s. in case that is too cryptic, that means I do my job the way I am told, even when it stinks. KTHXBAI)
[User Picture]
From:valkyriur
Date:August 20th, 2005 04:43 am (UTC)
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...like it's so hard for people to upload themselves an extra account on DA or some other such thing. It's not like Elfwood is mutually exclusive. People like that just annoy me.
[User Picture]
From:pet_student
Date:August 20th, 2005 05:01 pm (UTC)
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Well, people have more or less said it all. I am a big fan of Elfwood, full stop.

Having said that, I'd had rejections. To me, it came out of the blue and I felt really stupid, as I'd of course never submit anything I wasn't convinced was fantasy. On second review, I agreed on one of the pictures, argued and gave up on the rest. I still think some of it IS fantasy - but then again, the argument that I DON'T keep the site, and the ones who do DON'T charge me is an immensely strong one. At some stage, I have to admit that their opinion of what fantasy is must go before mine, and that I, being a low fantasy fan, have a basic problem. I can live with that, as I like the general idea of Elfwood.

As for the Moderator Queue, I do find it slow, this time. On the other hand - does it really harm me to wait two weeks or a month to have a picture up? Of course, I'd love to have my gallery updated as soon as I pressed "publish changes", but that isn't my main concern.

The only thing that sometimes makes me slightly grumpy is the number of pictures that lack in both drawing skills and effort. Partly because of that, I welcome the rule-change on quality. But however much I'd like to have a "quality limit", I'd never argue to actually have one. It simply wouldn't work, because who would decide what's "art" and what's "plain rubbish, not fit for publishing"? It's an impossible task for the Mods, and it would probably destroy Elfwood's diversity before it improved the overall impression of the site. But I do hope that the lined-paper rule (that people oddly enough seems to find upsetting at times), in due time, will make at least some people think before they submit.

And if you found this incoherent and confused, it probably is. Lots of thoughts, not entirely thought through. Now, do kill me if you please.

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